LGIP Owners’ Forum & Meeting With MAN At Copenhagen, 21-22 June 2022 

Written by/ CE XIONG XINZHOU

Sinogas was represented by Mr. Shekhrendu Bhardwaj and Mr. Xiong XinZhou at the LGIP Owners’ forum organized by MAN at Copenhagen on 21st-22nd  June   2022.

There were several other LGIP Owners, Operators & Future Buyers of the LGIP technology attended the forum: Some of the companies attended were; Petredec London, Anglo Eastern Singapore, Eastern Pacific Shipping Singapore, Kumiai Navigation Singapore, Hartmann Shipping Germany, Exmar Belgium, Latsco Shipping Greece, Northern Marine Management Scotland, Geogas Maritime Paris, IINO Marine Japan, V-Ships France.

AA) Program Schedule:

      Day 1: 21st June: 

1) Design LGIP design overview: Jörgen Marken, Sebastian Reinert

2) Design LGIP pipe vibrations

3) Service Experience LGIP service experience: Peter C. Quaade, Julia Svensson

4) Service experience Category II Cylinder oils update

4-1) Extra material MAN ES Explain Reasons Cat II CLO strategy JIME  2022

Day-2: 22nd June: 

5) Marine Installation LGIP Feedback: Zahid Nawaz, Jesper Munch Hansen

6) Automation ME-ECS Safety and Control: Jens Rane Baungaard

7) Service Experience Triton

8) Retrofit BW LPG Retrofit Project: Rasmus Kristensen

Note: The important points and relevant points covered during the above discussions are included in this report along with the minutes of the meetings. The complete PPPTs of the above topics are saved in the common drive.  

BB) Separate Meetings with MAN: In addition to the above discussion in the form, we have had two separate meetings with MAN on following agendas.  

1) Issues with the Existing 5x86k LGIP Vessels.

2) Conversion Project for 84k Vessels.

1) Issues with the Existing 5x86k LGIP Vessels (Minutes of the Meeting): 

Attended by:  

From MAN: Stig B. Jakobsen, Peter Christensen, Reum Koo, Allan Juul Larsen & Peter C. Quaade (Remotely from  Korea)

From SINOGAS: Shekhrendu Bhardwaj and Xiong XinZhou

Sinogas:

□ We are having several problems on all 5 x86k vessels. The present SF (Gas) operation on all the vessels has become almost impractical and highly unreliable.

□ Too much manpower is wasted on monitoring the Engine Room. Engine Rooms need to be manned 24 hrs for monitoring frequent failures and breakdown maintenance when on operating on Gas mode.

□ Too many Spares Consumption: Many spares esp. related to FBIV, which are supposed to last for 10-12,000 hrs are being consumed as frequently as within 200-300 hrs

□ Unreliable Operation: Our Master and C/Es are not confident to operate the M/E on DF mode when in congested water due to highly unreliable operation of LGIP.

i. FBIV: Gas nozzles getting clogged very frequently. We need to stop engine every 2-3 days and change 3-4 injectors at one time. The last change in design by the makers have also not helped much.

ii. The gas nozzle clogging results in strong vibration in Hydraulic high- pressure pipes and control oil pipes. This strong vibration causes injector sealing ring damage and crack in the control oil pipe.

iii. We need to stop the engine ASAP to replace the clogged second fuel injector. Otherwise, the hydraulic pipes will be damaged by excessive hydraulic pressure and results in strong oil leakage.

iv. There is no alarm fitted for this oil leakage and FBIV must be visually monitored 24/7.

v. In reply to a GC, the makers have suggested to clean the nozzles by soaking them in De-scaling liquid for 4 hrs. and ultra-sonically for 4 hours. The nozzles holes are getting bigger with this makers’

recommended cleaning procedure and heavy corrosion is noticed around atomizer holes area and seating areas. Nozzles need to be discarded within 1,000 hrs of running.

vi. On 2 vessels DF operation was stopped due to failure of Position sensor of ELWI valve.

vii. To monitor the hydraulic pipes, we are forced to keep engine room 24hrs manned during ME on gas mode.

□ Loss of Reputation and Financial Losses: We are getting too many complaints from the charterers for failure of Gas propulsion along with heavy financial penalties.

MAN’s Response: 

□ LGIP is new technology within Dual Fuel Segment and have its share of problems.

Most of the on-going problems have been identified and dealt with and some improvements are under trials.

□ There are 35 LGIP engines in service at Present: including new buildings and conversions. 16 LGIP vessels are 60 bore new build, out of which 5 are with Sinogas. 15 Conversion, 120+ new orders of LGIP engines

□ There are two main problems found on LGIP engines:

i. FBIV Nozzles Clogging,

ii. FBIV Pipes Broken and Heavy Vibrations in FBIV Pipes

□ All other owners are also face these similar problems.

□ 60 bore (G60ME-C9.5-LGIP model) has the more problems (i.e. Sinogas vessels).

□ The latest models of 60 bore (S60MEC10.5 & G60ME C10.5) and 50 bore models have better performance.

□ The Improvement in Pipes’ design has been carried out and new design of pipes will be sent to Sinogas soon. Details are discussed below.

□ Nozzle Clogging Issue:

i. As of now No good/permanent solution for Nozzle blocking, except frequent checking and cleaning.

ii. Th investigation is going on. The deposit material at nozzle was analyzed and concluded the source is either cylinder oil or sealing oil.

iii. The Long, Short and Extra Short design of nozzles and different materials are used, but so far, no conclusive solution is found.

iv. New designs of nozzles are under test on some vessels and awaiting the results by around end 2022 and then MAN will advise.

v. Recommend inspecting FBIV Nozzles after every 500 hrs and also when not running on Gas Mode.

□ Breaking of ELWI, Sealing and control pipes and O-rings:

i. The ELWI pipes problem has been investigated and resolved in new design. 4 bolt connection of ELWI pipe to FBIV in new design from current union type connection.

ii. A new design of Sealing and control pipes and O-rings being designed and will be sent to our all ships. (Ref to next section for details).

iii. Heavy Pipes Vibrations: are noticed especially during changing over from Fuel oil to Gas mode, attributed to draining of the ELGI pipe and ingress of air in the pipe when changing over to gas mode. MAN is carrying out some investigation and possible countermeasures to be introduce later as follows:

□ To keep the LPS-oil on all the time, instead of the present on/off function during purging of FBIV.

□ Introduction of a” sandwich plate” with integrated non-return valve to prevent air intrusion in the ELGI.

Sinogas:

□ Are there any quality issues with this MAN licensee (CMD) or the problems faced by us are common? What about other licensees, HHI & KHI? Are their similar LGIP engines also having same problems?

MAN:

□ The problems are common and faced by all the owners and by all licensees. This is more to do with this model of LGIP (G60 ME-C9.5 LGIP) .

Sinogas:

□ So far, we are communicating through CMD for the LGIP technical support. Due to new

& kind of “immature’ technology, the feedback and support from CMD is not  enough.

How we can use MAN directly for better support, quick action, regular updates   in

design changes and improvements and New Service Letters? Dedicated PIC and email of MAN for DF issues for quick response to our important technical  problems

□ Transfer Procedure for improvement in Design esp. change of software and hardware?

e.g. new design of FBIV pipes and Nozzles, how these new technology will be transferred to Sinogas quickly? Direct or through CMD?

□ We strongly request MAN to keep us closely posted on new developments and improvement in designs. If they need to try out any new design, we can cooperate with MAN to try out new technology on some of our ships for the early adoption.

□ 16 new build ships worldwide with this engine, 5 of them are operated by Sinogas. Therefore as one of the major owners/operators of LGIP vessels, we look forward to have a better Technical Support & Spare supply until system is matured, stabilized and become reliable, irrespective of guarantee period.

MAN:

□ Troubleshooting/ Support: Normal GCs will still be handled by CMD.

□ For special cases and technical support to keep MAN in copy when communicating with CMD.

□ The new FBIV pipes will be delivered to Sinogas for all vessels and will be informed once ready to dispatch.

□ A dedicated team for Dual Fuel Technology (LGIP) has been formed by MAN for better customer support TFT (Task Force Team) by way of: Data collecting, Faster troubleshooting and assistance with the correct data, Alarms Understanding, "alarms reference list", MOP Description and LGIP SF Cause and Effect table.

□ TFT founded by members from Engineering and R&D units. At the moment 25 members. Until now 7 work groups established. Each group have individual work group leader. TFT lead: Peter Quaade from Operation department

HP Pipes, Control & Seal Oil pipes: WG1 // Seal Oil system: WG2 // Hydraulic & Vibration (pipes): WG3 // Heavy weather running: WG4 // Clogged atomizers: WG5 // Mechanics: WG6

The dedicated email ID for Dual Fuel Engine is: operationDualFuelTechnology2S@man-es.com,

Peter C. Quaade and Reum Koo (peterc.quaade@man-es.com; koo.reum@man- es.com)

Sinogas:

□ ELWI Sensor Failed on Gas Sagittarius and Gas Virgo. Sensor was replaced as supplied by CMD under GC.

MAN:

□ Man confirmed that ELWI sensor must be replaced along with the block. CMD did not provide spare ELWI Block and Sensor. When the sensor failed only the spare sensor was sent to the vessel and CMD not informed us that this sensor is calibrated to block and should not be changed in isolation.

Sinogas:

□ Some Special Tools are missing and some are not of suitable design. e.g for dismantling FBIV Pipes and o-rings

MAN:

□ MAN has noticed this issue on several vessels delivered by the licensees. E.g.

Compression Tool for FBIV is missing on most vessels: to get from CMD. All ships to ask if any special tools and spares are missing from the initial supply.

Other Notes collected during the meeting: 

□ CMD’s manual is not updated, and spare part nos. are not always matching with Man’s manual: MAN has no specific solution for these.

□ Sometime CMD and MAN do not quote for some spares at all: Man wants to send them the emails to investigate. As per MAN they may have long lead time for several spares, but should be able to quote.

□ EGR Crack issues on sister vessels.: During our meeting with MAN, we were informed that some other owners’ vessels fitted with similar Main Engine and Exhaust Gas Receiver Design have reported cracks in the anchor plate and in the fixed foot.

Please refer to attached photo, drawing and MAN presentation showing the areas, where the cracks (Sometime hairline crack) have been found. We have asked all the vessels to carry out a thorough inspection of the suspected areas after removing the insulation and report.

So far only as Sagittarius has found a crack in the anchor plate area and has been temporarily repaired by the ship staff. MAN will arrange permanent repairs ASAP. Need around 4 days’ anchorage at a suitable    port.

2) Meeting with MAN for Conversion Project of 84k Vessels (Minutes of the Meeting): 

Attended by:  

MAN: Rasmus Kristensen & Soren Anderson

SINOGAS: Shekhrendu Bhardwaj and Xiong XinZhou

A)  The conversion project if approved commercially, must be started   ASAP. 

B) Conveyed to MAN, that the due to present problem and unreliable operation, we are not confident to go for conversion project. A better support and improved design will be required.

C) The 1st step would be to carry out 3D imaging of the Engine Room, which should be done immediately on one of the sister vessels. 

D) At present MAN have done 15 conversion projects of BW ships (All at Yu Lian Shipyard with Wartsila FGSS and DNV Class). With this combination, we can expect a smooth & timely completion of the project.

E) Informed MAN that the existing Cargo System on board is LGE and with our present experience with LGE on 86k vessels, this may be more suitable.  MAN has no objection in going with LGE for conversion project. However, there is some difference in approach and preparation between new-building and retrofit, so there might be some delays in case of LGE because of their lack   of experience on retrofit.

F) Option of using other shipyard than Yu Lian: MAN is not confident on finishing within stipulated time, in case of another shipyard. As there are many variables in the conversion project and with the experience of 15 conversions, Yu  Lian can almost guarantee to complete the project in   time.

G) Spares will come from Copenhagen and Korea and MAN should be able to connect in time for these 2   vessels.

H) Technical issues with existing LGIP Vessels: Our concerns are performance of LGIP engine and support by MAN, especially with our not so good experience on the existing LGIP vessels. Are the retrofit Engines are having same issues or any additional problems than the new build vessels?

MAN confirms that BW retrofit vessels are also having the similar problems of Nozzles clogging and pipes breaking as new-building vessels. MAN confirms that the ELWI Pipe breaking problem has been successfully resolved by new design of pipes and other pipes design improvements have also been encouraging.

The improved designs of Nozzles are under test on various vessels and MAN hopes to get a solution in near  future.

However, MAN has assured to keep supporting us, until the system becomes mature and reliable like their earlier models and not by time bound guarantee terms.

I) Additional Spares: MAN will recommend additional spares for the new LGIP Engine to be carried on board for safe operation and will be additional to conversion  project cost.

J) The existing cylinder heads to be discarded. Probably, we can use on 85k vessels with some modifications. Need to check.

K) The conversion will make the vessel EEXI compliant and help in getting better CII ratings.

L) Dual-Fuel Retrofit Solutions: Further to above discussion, below points were discussed during the presentation in the forum:

a) LPG Retrofit: has good environmental performance 

i. Lower NOx, PM, CO2

ii. No SOx

iii. Positive impact on EEDI

iv. Supply Chain in place World

v. Wide (600-700 small LPG Carriers in market)

vi. LPG prices available Worldwide

b) Investment cost ($ 3-20 mil.)

c) Requires space for tank

d) BW LPG Retrofit Project (15 Vessels) 

i. BW LPG: Turn Key Project Responsible

ii. WartsilaFuel Gas Supply System and engineering of ship integration systems (Gas pipe, Nitrogen system, Gas Vent Mast etc.)

iii. YuiLianShip YardResponsible for installation of engine components and manufacturing/installation of piping systems etc.

iv. MAN Energy SolutionsDelivery all hardware components on Engine and SVT/ RVT and provide Supervision for installation and commissioning.

Engine Certification

e) Modifications: Following main modifications are needed: LPG fueled main components (ex. ME):

i. LPG deck tanks

ii. FGSS (Fuel Gas Supply System)

iii. Fuel valve train (Master gas valve)

iv. Double wall pipe & ventilation system

v. N2 generator and bottle bank

vi. Vent masts

vii. LPG fuel piping

f) Schedule for a Retrofit Project 

i. Overview of Yard Stay

ii. Cold Installation 32 days

iii. Flushing 6 days

iv. Quay Trials 6 days

v. Sea Trial 8 days

vi. Total 52 days

vii. Conversion time pending on yard man power supply and organization at yard

viii. Sea Trail time pending on gas availability/ sea trial area.

g) Sea Trials 

i. Preconditions 

□ LPG Gas bunkered and at correct temperature and pressure

□ All Systems Mechanical/ Electrical Complete including Engine, FGSS and Auxiliary Systems

ii. Sea Trial Plan 

□ 3 days for MAN ES internal Commissioning

□ 2 days for Official Sea/Gas Trial with Class, including certification of engine

□ Completion of sea trial (Issue Completion Certificate)

iii. Vessel Sail away  

iv. After Sea Trial 

□ Preparation of technical file by MAN ES

□ Approval of Technical File by Classification society.

□ Classification to issue IAPP Certificate on behalf of flag state

h) Technical challenges during operation on Retrofit Vessels (Similar to New Build Vessels)

i. Clogging of Gas Nozzles

□ Some vessels have discovered problems with clogging of gas nozzles which may affect the continuous operation in duel fuel mode.

□ Several vessels are operating with test nozzles, results are being analysed by engineering team at MAN ES.

ii. Breakage of Hydraulic oil/ Control Oil Pipes

□ In our initial design for the LGIP engines we have had issues with the pipe package on the cylinder cover.

□ The hydraulic activation pipe were wrongly designed, a new updated pipe design have been installed on all BW LPG vessels.

□ The control oil pipe were changed from 20 mm to 15 mm, which has resulted in a more flexible pipe. Design reviews are ongoing.

□ Correct installation procedures with regards to torque and correct alignment of pipes have been updated, to ensure correct installation by vendors and engineers onboard the vessels.

CC) Other Important Points Discussed During the Forum:

Please find brief points discussed during each presentation during the forum. For Details, please refer to PPTs, saved in the common drive.

1) New Design of FBIV Pipes:

A) Design Flaws: Below design flaws were found in pipes present design when investigated the pipes at MAN CPH Test Center:

a) The present design is difficult to manufacture to meet with specification.

b) Removing O-rings was difficult.

c) The torque at union of FBIV was insufficient.

B) Improvement in New Design: The following improvements have been made to further strengthen the piping, avoid leakages, ease of manufacturing/assembly, damaged O- rings and loosening unions:

a) Robust pipe design:

i. The pipes connections will be parallel at connection on both ends for ease of use.

ii. The old design of union will be replaced by 4-bolt flanged connection between hydraulic pipe (ELWI) and fuel valve (top cover). (This will ease assembly and make the joint less likely to loosen under operation).

iii. The FBIV top flange have been made horizontal.

iv. Increased supports on AFT side for sealing and control oil

b) New couplings (with a conical piece and can be used w/o O-rings)

c) Drainage lines added

d) Torque updated (Increased) for both ELGI and ELWI

e) ELGI pipe thickness increased.

1) SPOC (Specific Pilot Oil Consumption) Optimization: To keep the SPOC in range, the offset has to be checked and adjusted. In service 4 Too low offset can result in untimed ignition 5 Too high offset will result in higher SPOC

2) Sealing Oil Consumption. Test is going on to determine is reduced seal oil consumption can lead to reduction of nozzle clogging.

3) New Category II 40 BN Cylinder Oils: New Cylinder Oil Type with Excellent overall performance with a special focus on cleaning ability. 40 BN cylinder oil that performs equal or better than a 100 BN oil in regard to cleaning. ExxonMobil –Mobilgard540AC, NOL has been received but not yet available in the market.

4) Sharing Experiences & Feed Back (design aspects) 

A) Background of LPG recirculation Rates : LPG recirculation is determined by the need to maintain correct pressure and temperature of LPG at FBIV.

B) Mixing of Sealing Oil in return LPG: Study if this plug filters and cause problems in the return system.

C) Inlet filters Blockage and determination of filter specs.

D) FVT Level switch

E) Vacuum in the double block and bleed

F) Condensation in the outer pipe (Double wall)

6) ME ECS Safety & Control: Safety philosophy and Control Strategy. LGIP Safety Philosophy 

A) One Single Failure –SF Shutdown or SF Stop: In case of a failure in the SF control system, the use of LPG is stopped and the engine is changed-over to fuel oil operation. If the failure is detected by a Safety Unit LPG injection is immediately stopped.

B) The Non-controlled and Fail-safe state of the LGIP and safety system is:

a) LPG supply to engine and machinery space is blocked

b) LGIP System on engine is depressurized to Knock Out Drum (KOD)

C) Doubled Safety SensorsThe sensors related to LGIP safety is doubled and connected to Safety Unitse.g. Hydro Carbon (HC) Sensors in Outer Pipe (One wired to SPSU and one wired to SCSU1)

D) One sensor for control unit and one for safety unitTwo sensors are applied when information is used for both control and safety. One sensor is connected to a Control Unit and one to a Safety Unit e.g. SF Pressure (Supply Pressure (SPCU) and inlet Pressure (SPSU))

E) No human actions necessary except from pushing the start button Change-over to DF running is completely automatic.

7) New Control System (Triton): Triton Controller will be Replacing the MPC hardware. Our hardware is MPC type. MAN is changing all new control system to triton. However presently no new Triton hardware available due to chip shortage.

MPC: 

• Components are “end-of-life”

• Entered service 2003

• Spare part in service test

• Try to combat component shortage.

Triton Service Test: 

• 6S60ME-C10.5 (Triton and MPC as backup) Triton service since: Q1 2020

Triton service since: Q2 2020

Triton: 

A) Faster processor, more memory –more advanced control algorithms

B) Modular design, increase flexibility –Additional engine signals to ECS

C) Display and LED indicators –easy setup and troubleshooting.

D) All MAN-ES specified signals will be monitored by Triton.

E) Simpler installation:

a) Tacho over Ethernet and premade Ethernet cables

b) Simple turning wheel sensor –no more half ring

c) Build in Insulation monitoring IRM

Notes:

□ All Sinogas Vessels are fitted with MPC hardware.

□ New Triton Controllers are not available due to chip shortage

□ Some owners using Triton have reported serious issues with Triton controllers. So far MPC, we have not had any major issues.

MAN HEAD OFFICE 

FORUM DISCUSSION -1 

FORUM DISCUSSION -2

FORUM DISCUSSION -3